Petition for People's Freedom

[Sarutobi Fumiko]

I believe we as members of the site have the right to spend our stat points how we'd like, and as long as we spend our allotted points were still capable of obtaining the rank we want. In other words no staff can tell us we miss used our points, or have to certain skills at certain ranks to achieve a rank.

I.E - According to the free-format template, we're allowed 18 points as a jounin, but we have to make all our main skills D-rank, and as a Kage, we've got to make them all C-rank. If you agree to this petition, you'll be removing these 'butts' from the application meaning you can have E-rank main skills and still qualify as a jounin or kage. 

Those who agree, you simply have to post here. Remember this is to allow you more control over your application, so please respond~! 

I ArgonKasentoo forward the movement to allow free reign over my stat points~!

[Sarutobi Sarukei]

I Sega forward the movement to allow free reign over my stat points~!

[Yagirami Shikai]

I, Genkishi, forward the movement to allow free reign over available stat points.

[MAYDAY]

You misused your stat points, Argon.


Jk


I, Mayday, forward the movement to allow free reign over stat points.

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

Seconded

[REAPER]

I can understand why this system may be implemented, but I personally dislike it. I forward the motion as well.

[Uzumaki Zanji]

I forward this motion as well *rolls around*

[ALPHA]

After some thought about policy, and what's important in any RP.

The actual RP-capability.

This is why the template is created to be allow you to finish basically any character within a hour or so. To speed up the RP process.

So, i will be removing the restriction and not modifying the points system to do so.

However, you guys be pulling this stuff again. Expect compromise, where neither sides wins. lol.

[ALPHA]

This petition has been reopened.

For various reasons, one, mass liking of a illogical freedom Vs Logic.

Disregard everything i said before. My mind-set was completely incoherent as i simply wanted to end this, however, now from an objective point of view without bias and valid thoughts within the matter, i will approach this with a firm hand upon logic explanation and basic debate & reasoning.

What you guys have yet to provide is one solid piece of information regarding "why" we should logically allow Jounin, Elite Shinobi who are stated to be exceptional in all arts, to be inept in a major art and not be Tokubetsu or lower. As military rank has a different meaning than letter-rank, as military rank is given on "specific" basis of accomplishments and capabilities, whereas letter rank is strictly individual ability focused.

Give me your best and logical explanation as to why, without the insignificance arguments of "I want" or "It's fair we choose." As those arguments are selfish and illogical in every-possible way. I will then read all your arguments to see if they hold any water whatsoever and make my decision then, until then, the restriction will be re-added to all templates.

-Thank you.

Proceed.

If a argument is not added within 3 days, i will close this thread and it will be law of NR.

[Sarutobi Fumiko]

The limitations which set us apart from academy ninja and up is the jutsu limit and starting points, you don't need to have this perfect 'logical view of jounin' to make a jounin. If you can't give the people what they want on an rp site, you shouldn't be allowed to run one. I fairly made this petition and almost everyone agreed with me on this, but you still fight it simply out of your own prides wrath. You're not coming back to this point with logic, you're merely attacking it out your own personal 'want'. If you're going to set a precedent that "I don't have to listen to you guys, because I'm better than the entire website's opinion." Than, I'm going to demand the change of this petition not be towards anymore changes of the systems set, but to the recently placed staffer... If you're not looking towards the sites best interest you're not worth looking over the site, I don't care about your activity despite you always being here I've yet to see you approve anything or make any changes worth noting, as our participation has seemingly gone down more than up. If I had to guess it'd be on the lack of motion to get people rping and their stuff to get reviewed.

[Sarutobi Sarukei]

Dec 26, 2013 20:33:19 GMT -5 Sarutobi Fumiko said:

The limitations which set us apart from academy ninja and up is the jutsu limit and starting points, you don't need to have this perfect 'logical view of jounin' to make a jounin. If you can't give the people what they want on an rp site, you shouldn't be allowed to run one. I fairly made this petition and almost everyone agreed with me on this, but you still fight it simply out of your own prides wraith. You're not coming back to this point with logic, you're merely attacking it out your own personal 'want'. If you're going to set a precedent that "I don't have to listen to you guys, because I'm better than the entire website's opinion." Than, I'm going to demand the change of this petition not be towards anymore changes of the systems set, but to the recently placed staffer... If you're not looking towards the sites best interest you're not worth looking over the site, I don't care about your activity despite you always being here I've yet to see you approve anything or make any changes worth noting, as our participation has seemingly gone down more than up. If I had to guess it'd be on the lack of motion to get people rping and their stuff to get reviewed.

Not only this, but the current rules as is do not allow one to even really create the character they may have in mind. Instead of actually shaping the character of your like, you're forced to make more of a 'shapeless' character lacking real talent in one thing or the other, stripping them of all things that make a Jounin special in the first place. Who is to say that a Jounin needs all these things in order to make them successful or to even make it to that position? Any military is willing to take anyone who has shown real talent in something, so I see no reason as to why there shouldn't be a reason for someone who has shown talent and have managed to hold themselves well without having a specific style of battle, it simply just makes no sense. With such needless restrictions, we will be deterring potential members from joining in the future, talkless with the majority of  current members who are dissatisfied with things as they are now. It would make a huge waste of the nice plots we all are planning and setting in motion. Once again, I can only think of supporting this petition. This is the least we could do for ourselves.

[ALPHA]

Short response:

Argon: I feel like i'm being attacked personally, and you veered off topic to do so. If you don't have a solid reason why Jounin should be inept in a main skill, despite Special Jounin existing, then please don't reply. To your other things regarding approvals and whatnot, i will happily discuss this over Private Chat rather than in a public thread and veer off the original topic. If you have problems with me as a staffer, i will, as i said, take it up with you via PC or i can bring up your concern to the Main Admin.

@sarukei: You're right, any military is willing to enlist out of talent. However, that talent dictates their status[An excellent commander would not be given a position as a solider, and vice versa.]. Most of your guys arguments would justify the existence of Special Jounin, not an Elite Jounin. Perhaps even an Advanced Chuunin.

However, you guys still have yet to give any solid reasons why a Jounin, a Elite Shinobi who is stated in canon to be capable in all overall ninja capabilities can be inept in a specific area[Special Jounin most likely exist if this occurs]. The general reasoning i'm seeing is that of "You can't dictate, you shouldn't, because i/we don't want it like that." Again, as i said, the military position clearly states, in canon, that jounin are elite shinobi who are generally proficient / capable in all forms of combat. We must automatically assume Special Jounin exists for those who want to shape their characters specifically to one fighting style, aka, why they exist cause of their level of skill with said fighting style. We do not take away someones ability to make anything lesser than jounin, if they do not like the requirements, they can merely go to another lv w/ the proper stat points. Once again, i say, Special Jounin.

Also, E = Academy Student. D = Genin. To think an elite shinobi would have genin-lv / advanced academy student skills in Taijutsu is ridiculous. Especially regarding Ninjutsu, which is the life-bread of all ninja imo. You should definitely not have E-Rank Ninjutsu[Ninja Arts] while being a Jounin whatsoever.

I will continue to take solid arguments, and please, do not veer off topic.

[Shitabataraki Raito]

Please allow me to make my argument. The following will be based on my own opinions, interpretation of the Naruto series, and previous experience in running a moderately successful forum.

I would like to argue against the petition and say that the limits proposed and set upon every member is logical, reasonable, and completely justified. First, I would like to give two definitions, both extracted from [Narutopedia]. The first will be of Jounin: "Jōnin (上忍, Jōnin; Literally meaning "High Ninja", Meaning (Viz) "Elite Ninja") are generally highly-experienced shinobi with great individual skill who serve as military captains... Jōnin are generally able to use at least two types of elemental chakra,[1] some genjutsu, and above average taijutsu skills." Now, I will give the definition of a Tokubetsu Jounin: "Tokubetsu Jōnin (特別上忍, Tokubetsu Jōnin; English TV "Special Jōnin"; Literally meaning "Special High Ninja"; sometimes known as Tokujō for short) are ninja who, rather than all-around jōnin training, have jōnin-level ability in a specific area or skill, much like warrant officers in real-world militaries. They are elite specialists in their area..."

Alright, two definitions were given and I'll use them to make my point. First, Jounin are described as being able to use at least two types of elemental chakra, some genjutsu, and above average taijutsu skills not to mention their already high level ninjutsu skills. This means that a jounin, an elite shinobi, is one who has been a higher level shinobi in all aspects. They are well rounded, and even though they may have their own specializations [such as Guy being a taijutsu master], it does not mean that they are weak in any other aspects. [Guy was shown being able to use Summoning Ninjutsu and dispelling Genjutsu]. You want to have some E-rank core skills? Then become a Tokubetsu Jounin. They are the specialized shinobi, as per their definition. They don't have the "all-around" jounin training and thus become Special Jounins, having only one skill capable of being jounin level, while the rest of the skills are average or below. The reason for having at least D-rank cores for a jounin are pretty obvious if you look at it this way. Jounin are appointed because of their overall ability. What kind of Jounin would you be if a genin beat you with his D-rank taijutsu against your E-rank taijutsu?

And of course, the same goes for a kage. If you're a kage and decide to have E-rank Genjutsu [because everyone hates having genjutsu] and a genin with C-rank or D-rank genjutsu came along, you'll be defeated, like a punk little bitch. So all of your arguments are invalid and stupid. I understand that you don't like even more of your points being dispersed, but such is life. So get over it.

[Sarutobi Fumiko]

lol, again this isn't what my petition was about Alpha, my petition was what people wanted, it was a census of your sites will... They willed it to be free-will and your argument isn't valid, if you'd like to make a petition your own petition asking people if they'd like their to be a set standard of points spent to make them a non-enept jounin than go ahead, but as it stands this petition is still proof that what you think is logical isn't what most people want. It's what you want and your close friend want, I see he uses the exact same argument you tried to use against me on prior. You clearly talked him into just throwing this down to try and prove your point, but from the start I haven't agreed with your point. Your idea of logical isn't logical to me, and I strongly believe that my statement of 'the point system and the jutsu system is enough to seperate jounin from chunnin and so on,' is a valid argument you just refuse to accept it because that'd mean you'd lose. You're being a spoiled loser and it isn't befitting of a good staffer. This isn't a personal attack this is exactly how I feel and observe the scenario.

I'm going to once again ask you remove your follow up post on here, as it doesn't truly pertain to what this petitions goal was, and this petition being mine and my work you're not allowed to change or meddle in it without my personal okaying. If you don't like that either it's simply further proof, you're not acting out of logic, you're acting out of your own personal desires. Since as I've proven again with this petition is whether that's what you believe or not, people still agree with me that they'd rather have it the way it was... and my other point about you not looking through apps or doing any productive staffing still stands too, it's a valid point that I believe every member deserves to hear and consider.

Finally, I'm sick of this, I'll take it up with the main admin. Akemi needs to talk to me, and I need to talk to Akemi. Otherwise I don't know what lies could be going on behind my back, this discussion is important to everyone on the site too, so I see no reason why they can't hear or participate in this discussion too. Besides why can't you validly defend yourself on these opinions, I mean when you bring up something that isn't the petition it's all honky doorey, but when I talk out of your re-definition of MY petition it's wrong and needs to be done in private. If you truly wanted to settle any of this in privates you'd private message me instead of responding on here, because I know I was online when you posted this and after you posted this...

Seriously, you've eerked me quite the wrong way, and I'd prefer the next discussion I have about this on a serious level be with Akemi, because you've made it clear you won't accept my logic or change your opinion. You won't follow the flow people want to take, you're only worried about your opinion and it being right. So, if you can't get me Akemi, then I'd move you not make any actions until I can.

[REAPER]

Okay that is it. I am tired of hearing about people being annoyed by something alpha does. How about this for you Alpha.

When people are forced to make upgrades to everything in their profile it makes it much MUCH more difficult to even make a character the way to may desire to, and I understand this can be fixed with IC development, hell, that's what I was planning to do. However, with the current limitations, some people cannot even create characters for the Special Ability reservations. ON TOP OF THAT, you are forcing people with characters currently approved to have to revamp those characters and overall make all of their abilities worthless.

So here is what I suggest if you truly want to keep these limitations. Bump up the amount of stats each rank gets starting a jounin. This should help counter-act the limitations you're putting on us and allow players to still be able to design the characters to their desire without having to do a shit ton of IC development before hand. As such, make the point intervals go up by five.

Academy: 5
Genin: 10
Chuunin: 15
Jounin: 20
Kage: 25

I understand this may be a bit steep, but this is what I personally feel it should be in order to counter-balance the limitations and hopefully make everyone happy.

furthermore this forum is NOT N:RE, we may have similar systems, but we are not the same therefore not everything should be brought over.